I know I'm not the perfect parent (as I know no one is THE perfect parent) but there's some problems we're having with our 5 year old son that I'm finding kind of hard to deal with...Lately, I feel he's been acting up. I'm wondering what, exactly, I, or we, are doing wrong or could change. Any advice or tips are definitely appreciated...

Yesterday, we went out for supper to a restaurant. First time we've gone out for supper in quite some time - I'd guess a good month and a half at least. DS hadn't behaved very well. When we walked in, the first thing was he was NOT happy that the train that sometimes runs along a track suspended from the ceiling and going through the whole restaurant was not running. He would not sit down, he was doing things to scare DD (almost 9 months) and not listening. We left to pay the bill as soon as we were done eating, and while paying, he threw a temper tantrum over a balloon. There were a few balloons tied to a pillar in the restaurant, and he had wanted one. We left the restaurant with him bawling over the damn balloon, and when we walked out the doors, he was right behind me and hit me. I spun around and told him to hit me again and he wouldn't, and once again, I told him hitting is not allowed and it's not nice. I asked him if I hit him, and he ignored me, and I told him that I do not hit him, and he does not need to hit me. He then refused to get in the car and stayed up on the sidewalk behind some low bushes, standing there looking at us like we were stupid, still bawling over that balloon. DH told him to get in his seat now or we would leave without him, and he finally got in the car, only to sit there screaming. I didn't even bother to start the car. DH turned around and told him to cut this garbage out and to stop acting like that, or he'd give him something to cry about, and told him when we got home, he's up in his room to change and be in bed. He stopped and we went home, with him then refusing to get out of the car. I told him it was going to be a very cold and lonely night if he was locked in the car over night to sleep, and by the time DH was at our gate and I got DD out of the car, he got out as well. The neighbour boy was outside, and asked DS if he was coming out to play, and DS instantly turned around and said he has school tomorrow and it's late. I had to run out, and not sure how getting him in bed was, but DH said nothing when I got home, so I assume it was alright.

Firstly, is there a good way to handle situations like that? Lately, it always seems to be something.more and more often. What should or shouldn't be done? I, personally, don't believe that yelling and shouting and hittiing him is the way to go. I don't believe that way gets very far, but I am not all against spanking, getting my panties in a knot over it when someone suggests or mentions it. I've just found IME that it seems to be pointless and not the way to get a message across. My parents are from the days of the strap, I'm from the days of spanking, and it seems DS is from the days of just not being able to get the message. I've been trying to keep my calm (yes, I do have a temper when my buttons are pushed) and talk. He's good at ignoring. Gets that from his dad. How do you deal with a 5 year old just being a downright brat?

Also, a couple days ago, DS, DD and I were in the car. Can't remember where we were going or why, but he was at it again. He sat in the back seat saying, "I hate you." over and over again. I simply said, "That's fine. I still love you." and he started screaming and saying he hates me over and over. I finally just ignored it, but to be honest, I was trying my hardest not to burst out laughing. He then, after about 2 minutes of "I hate you" over and over again, he gave up when he got no reaction from me when I was ignoring him, so he went on to say, "I hate Amie (DD)" and I said, "Well, that's not nice at all. You know she doesn't hate you." and he said he did not want her to sit next to him in the car, so the next day, I moved her car seat from the middle seat to the side so they were on opposite sides of the car. Next day, he said he wanted her seat to beside his seat and said he does not hate her. Moving her seat, actually, was something I had been wanting to do for a while, actually, since it made it a lot easier to have space between the car seat and booster seat to be able to do up the seatbelt for DS's booster seat. I was actually waiting for the OK from the health center and also Alberta Transport if my one back shoulder belt would be alright to use for a baby's seat. They called back and said it was perfectly fine to use, as since the shoulder belt part won't retract, the lap part was still just fine and with the locking clip, it would turn into like a regular lap belt and would be just fine and just as safe to use. I would have moved her seat over anyways, but I was waiting for the OK that it's fine. Now about a week later, her seat is still where I had moved it to, and he doesn't really care any more. Again, in the situation of the "I hate you" what's the best way to handle it? I've always simply said, "That's alright. I still love you" but that seems to make him even more mad, and never before has he said he hates his sister. He has said he hates me but loves his sister, or he's said to DH or I that he hates one but loves the other. Should this behavior be ignored completely? What kind of words, if any, should I say back to him? I find I have trouble NOT laughing, I just kind of find it funny, and know he doesn't mean it, but still... It's funny to me, and I know laughing to myself, over the situation or at him is not the way to go.

We just seem to be having general problems lately. His behavior is often not at all acceptable. Is there anything that anyone could suggest to maybe do with him? There's only so much I find I can do... I can only sit down and color so long, watch TV with him for so long or play a game for so long. Is there activities that can be done that work around a normal lifestyle? Is there anything that you've found has worked? Should we walk to the park more often and let him burn off energy? Should I take away events like going to the park with bad behavior? A while back elsewhere, someone had suggested doing like a sticker chart - get a sticker for every day that there's good behavior or whatever... Would something like that work? List of activities or doings for every day, and every time during the day that this is met, should he get one sticker and work up to lots? I don't really want to try and bribe, reverse mentality doesn't seem to work... Anyone have any ideas that we can try? Either for DH and him, DS and I, the whole family?

"shinypenny" wrote in message news:1146235203.576378.122920@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...>> xkatx wrote:>> I know I'm not the perfect parent (as I know no one is THE perfect >> parent)>> but there's some problems we're having with our 5 year old son that I'm>> finding kind of hard to deal with...>> Lately, I feel he's been acting up. I'm wondering what, exactly, I, or >> we,>> are doing wrong or could change. Any advice or tips are definitely>> appreciated...>> First, I just want to say that you're not alone, and I do remember> times like this when my kids were young! I will do my best to remember> how I learned to handle such scenes, way back when......>>> Yesterday, we went out for supper to a restaurant. First time we've gone>> out for supper in quite some time - I'd guess a good month and a half at>> least. DS hadn't behaved very well. When we walked in, the first thing >> was>> he was NOT happy that the train that sometimes runs along a track >> suspended>> from the ceiling and going through the whole restaurant was not running. >> He>> would not sit down, he was doing things to scare DD (almost 9 months) and>> not listening.>> I would've picked him up and taken him out of the restaurant. I would> tell him we were going to sit in the car until he was ready to behave> in the restaurant. I would then sit with him in the car and ignore him> until he was ready to go back in. Yes, it sucks because I might also> miss half the meal, but it's highly effective. It's important to ignore> him during this time-out, because if you don't, he might think next> time, "Gee, I'll act up and then I'll have mom all to myself to play> with in the car."

Maybe this might be a good thing to try... The thing about dragging him out of any place is I would be dragging him out kicking and screaming. Quite frankly, I don't care if people stand around with their mouthes hanging wide open, staring at me. I bet that this person who seems to stand there staring has thrown a temper tantrum themselves when they were younger or has had a child toss a good one at some point. I really can't carry him much anymore with being pregnant and having back/spine issues, but I'm sure I could manage on occasion if need be ;) Sending DH out to the car, I know, is a bad idea, simply because DH was raised on threats and does the same, and I know with DH and DS out in the car, DD and I would be waiting until Christmas for them to come back in! lolI'm good at ignoring him when he acts up - most of the time.

>> We left to pay the bill as soon as we were done eating, and>> while paying, he threw a temper tantrum over a balloon. There were a few>> balloons tied to a pillar in the restaurant, and he had wanted one.>> Why didn't he get a balloon? Was there none left by the end of dinner?> Or didn't you want him to have one because of his behavior?

No other kids in the restauruant walked out with a balloon... Never before in that restaurant has he walked out with a balloon - good behavior or not. I didn't know if the balloons were for sale, for free or for decorations, and yes, because of his behavior, I wasn't about to ask the waitress about the balloons. To be honest, though, I was quite tempted - for just a second - to request a balloon for DD, who was a very good little girl during supper, but I didn't. I wasn't in the mood to act like a jerk to a 5 year old, and I saw no point. I should, however, be able to say no about something, and that should be expected. Now, had I said no and he asked for a reason, I do think he's entitled to a reason behind an answer, but he did not ask why he could not have a balloon, and I didn't offer him a reason either.

>> We left>> the restaurant with him bawling over the damn balloon, and when we walked>> out the doors, he was right behind me and hit me. I spun around and told>> him to hit me again and he wouldn't, and once again, I told him hitting >> is>> not allowed and it's not nice.>> Talk is good, but you have to follow up with action. In this situation,> I might've strapped him into the car seat immediately, and ignored him> all the way home, even if he was bawling away. But at 5, I guess you> might have issues with keeping him strapped in his car seat.... so I> dunno.. maybe others have suggestions here.

Luckily, the restaurant is about 3 minutes down the road. He knows very well to, no matter what, keep that seatbelt on, and keep it on properly. Him taking off his seatbelt has not ever once been an issue since that car accident where I had stressed how important it is to always wear your seatbelt in any car, all the time. We has a couple problems with him taking off his seatbelt when we got somewhere, or, rather, when he felt we got there, but I had made it clear that as long as the car was turned on OR we were on the road (pulled over on the side of the road, parked on the road, whatever) that seatbelt is to stay on and in those cases, I will take his seatbelt off for him. Otherwise, parking lots, driveways, he is allowed to unbuckle when the car has been turned OFF.I cannot drive with major child distractions. I always have to pull over if the baby starts something and is crying, and I just cannot drive with someone yelling and shouting. A car is just too small of a place to ignore screaming or crying. I just can't handle that, and that's been since when about DD was born and her constant crying had made me want to swerve the car into oncoming traffic or off the road or something, thinking doing that would end the crying and screaming right away. PND support groups helped me out tons with that one, though ;) And now the only way I can do it is if there's not unnecessary screaming, shouting, bickering, arguing, crying.

>> I asked him if I hit him, and he ignored me,>> and I told him that I do not hit him, and he does not need to hit me. He>> then refused to get in the car and stayed up on the sidewalk behind some >> low>> bushes, standing there looking at us like we were stupid, still bawling >> over>> that balloon. DH told him to get in his seat now or we would leave >> without>> him,>> Yes, I would've done that too. I would have calmly left him on the curb> and walked away. I wouldn't have *driven* away, but usually just> turning and walking away like I really meant it was enough to get my> girls quickly following.

I've gone so far as to start the car. That does send him running to the car. Never driven off, never even put the car in gear. I had just let him stand there yelling whatever he was yelling and I put DD in the car. By the time I was done, he was sitting in his seat.

>> and he finally got in the car, only to sit there screaming. I didn't>> even bother to start the car. DH turned around and told him to cut this>> garbage out and to stop acting like that, or he'd give him something to >> cry>> about, and told him when we got home, he's up in his room to change and >> be>> in bed.>> Well, maybe not the best approach, but in situations like this, it's> understandable to be at one's breaking point and have a hard time> remaining calm!!

Oh, I know it wasn't the best approach and way to handle it. At this point, he had not behaved at all during supper, dropped a knife not once, but three times, had to be told to sit down too many times to count, mouthed me off about 3 times, the list goes on ;)

> If I had any presence of mind left at this point, I might've had all of> us but him get out of the car, saying we will not drive home until he> stops crying, and that the rest of us were not going to sit in the car> with him screaming in our ears. I'd have the rest of the family sit> outside the car waiting for him to stop screaming.

I have tried that once. I told him he is to stay with his seatbelt on, I got out of the car, closed the door, leaned up against my door and lit a smoke and just stood there listening to him scream, and he had been sitting there kicking my car seats. I then opened the door and told him that grandpa would NOT like to hear what he was doing to our car (and this is true, as grandpa would NOT be happy with him if he heard about kicking the seats) and DS knew that. He had stopped kicking the seats, I had finished my smoke, he was quiet. I sat back down in the car just to get right up and out again and light another smoke to fill the time, and stood outside the car while he then hit the door and window. I opened the door and asked him if he would like the glass to break and cut him because if he kept hitting the door/window, the window could break and that him cleaning up glass would not be fun.

>> He stopped and we went home, with him then refusing to get out of>> the car. I told him it was going to be a very cold and lonely night if >> he>> was locked in the car over night to sleep,>> Yep, I'd have said that too. And if necessary, walked into the house> without him. However, my kids would've followed quite quickly because> they learned early on I meant business.

It didn't take him long to follow.

>> and by the time DH was at our>> gate and I got DD out of the car, he got out as well. The neighbour boy >> was>> outside, and asked DS if he was coming out to play, and DS instantly >> turned>> around and said he has school tomorrow and it's late. I had to run out, >> and>> not sure how getting him in bed was, but DH said nothing when I got home, >> so>> I assume it was alright.>>>> Firstly, is there a good way to handle situations like that? Lately, it>> always seems to be something.more and more often. What should or >> shouldn't>> be done? I, personally, don't believe that yelling and shouting and>> hittiing him is the way to go. I don't believe that way gets very far, >> but>> I am not all against spanking, getting my panties in a knot over it when>> someone suggests or mentions it. I've just found IME that it seems to be>> pointless and not the way to get a message across. My parents are from >> the>> days of the strap, I'm from the days of spanking, and it seems DS is from>> the days of just not being able to get the message. I've been trying to>> keep my calm (yes, I do have a temper when my buttons are pushed) and >> talk.>> He's good at ignoring. Gets that from his dad. How do you deal with a 5>> year old just being a downright brat?>> I also agree that spanking and yelling and hitting aren't effective.

I just don't see the point. I have yet to see that spanking and shouting like a fool actually work, but if I saw it did work, I'd definitely give it a go. Yet to see how spanking and yelling helps any situation, as I find it actually makes a situation more stressful and harder to deal with.

>> Also, a couple days ago, DS, DD and I were in the car. Can't remember >> where>> we were going or why, but he was at it again. He sat in the back seat>> saying, "I hate you." over and over again. I simply said, "That's fine. >> I>> still love you.">> Yep, that's my approach too.

I find it kind of funny... I reply with an overly nice reply of, "That's fine. I still love you!" every single time. He then yells at me. This has been more and more lately, but when he does get upset, he has done it before in the past. I know I said it, and I've heard other kids say it, so I know it's a common thing for kids to say ;) It doesn't bother me one bit because it's always when he's downright pissed off. Yes, I find it funny! No, I can't control my smiling... It's enough to control bursting out laughing out loud!

>> and he started screaming and saying he hates me over and>> over. I finally just ignored it, but to be honest, I was trying my >> hardest>> not to burst out laughing. He then, after about 2 minutes of "I hate >> you">> over and over again, he gave up when he got no reaction from me when I >> was>> ignoring him, so he went on to say, "I hate Amie (DD)" and I said, "Well,>> that's not nice at all. You know she doesn't hate you.">> Hmmmmm......... DD is only 9 months old. Perhaps your DS is having some> sibling rivalry issues? Maybe this was his way of expressing the> conflict in his mind, that he's supposed to love his baby sister, but> he's feeling shortchanged because he has to now share his parents with> her?

Actually, I have yet to see that one bit. Everywhere he goes, everyone he sees, no matter what, he always brags about his baby sister and tells everyone about her. He has never once said anything bad about her, other than when she crys, she gives him a headache, yet that's not really much of a complaint about her, really. The only other thing is that he doesn't like it when she gets into his drawings and eats/rips his papers up. I just tell him she's a baby and doesn't know any better and he needs to put his papers away where she can't get them, and I tell him I'm sure he can draw that picture again, and maybe even make it better. That seems to be enough to make him happy and not worry about it. He has never really shown anything else that would cause concern or make me think he might have some resentment. He's always happy to sit with her, play with her, even help change diapers - but no, he won't touch a poopy diaper ;)

>> Again, in the situation of the "I>> hate you" what's the best way to handle it? I've always simply said,>> "That's alright. I still love you" but that seems to make him even more>> mad, and never before has he said he hates his sister. He has said he >> hates>> me but loves his sister, or he's said to DH or I that he hates one but >> loves>> the other. Should this behavior be ignored completely? What kind of >> words,>> if any, should I say back to him? I find I have trouble NOT laughing, I>> just kind of find it funny, and know he doesn't mean it, but still... >> It's>> funny to me, and I know laughing to myself, over the situation or at him >> is>> not the way to go.>> At 5 kids don't have a very advanced vocabularly to describe their> emotions. He may be struggling with emotions over his baby sister, less> time with mom and dad, and stress that a baby in the family creates.> But his vocabularly may be too simple to describe all this: it's either> "love" or "hate." And your son's true feelings are much more> complicated than that.>> You can teach him new words to describe what he's feeling. Try drawing> him out, "I know it must be hard sharing your parents with your DD.> She's cute and all that, but maybe you feel resentment? That would be> normal." See how you help him to articulate what he might be feeling,> and give him a label for it that's more useful and accurate than> "hate." ?

Yes, I've noticed it's always hate or love. Nothing really in between. The love comes whenever, the hate comes when he's angry. I sometimes get that hate can sometimes mean I'm mad at you, not really I don't like you. He doesn't like tomatos and mushrooms, but maybe he sees that as different, and I hate you and I don't like what you did/said/whatever can mean the same things to him.

>> We just seem to be having general problems lately. His behavior is often>> not at all acceptable. Is there anything that anyone could suggest to >> maybe>> do with him? There's only so much I find I can do... I can only sit down>> and color so long, watch TV with him for so long or play a game for so >> long.>> Is there activities that can be done that work around a normal lifestyle?>> The single best thing I did at that age, particularly when DD#2 came> along, is ensure that I spent one-on-one time with each of them very> early in the day. Even just 20 minutes during which I was fully, 100%> focused on them, made a *huge* difference in the tenor of the rest of> the day. For example, consider switching bedtime reading to morning for> awhile. Or just set aside 20-30 minutes of time in the morning where DS> gets to pick the activity and you fully participate and tune into him.

Early in the day isn't possible. He's in kindergarden, and the school bus picks him up at 7:30 in the morning, and drops him off at 12:30 in the afternoon. I do try and feed DD her lunch around 11:30, and she normally has a nap around noon until about 1:30-2pm or so. That first half hour is normally spent loading the dishwasher or something similar. I then try and get lunch ready - either start it just before he's home or as soon as he gets home, and I always sit down with him for lunch and have lunch with him, while DD is napping, and then that hour or hour and a half until DD wakes is normally the time that we get together to do whatever no matter what.There's just no time in the morning... He's fairly tough to get up in the morning as it is, and I find first thing in the morning I just don't have the energy or desire to do anything more than what has to be done...I'm up by 6am for when DH goes to work. Wake DS up, get him ready and all that, then take him to the bus for 7:30, and then I try and catch a bit more sleep from about 7:30 until 9, 9:30 when DD normally wakes up for the day.

> If you can do this early in the day, you may find, like I did, that he> will be more content playing on his own later, less demanding of your> attentions and competing less with DD.>>> jen

Maybe I'll find some new and better things to do first thing in the afternoon when he gets home. He always likes to go to the park and play, or likes when we go across the street to the big field with the big hill. Both those are out first thing in the afternoon after lunch as I obviously can't leave DD at home alone sleeping to take off and do whatever.

"Irrational Number" wrote in message news:17q4g.3853$DT5.2900@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...>I think you are doing just fine, in general! It's> so tough with kids, especially when they're tantruming.> I haven't figured out the answers yet, but here I> am, responding to your post! ;)>> xkatx wrote:>>>> Yesterday, we went out for supper to a restaurant. First time we've gone >> out for supper in quite some time - I'd guess a good month and a half at >> least. DS hadn't behaved very well.>> One thing I do is I never let my kids go to a> restaurant hungry. Just like any parties or> anything. I feed them first, that way, they> have good blood sugar, it doesn't matter if> service takes a bit long, I can feed them little> bits of interesting food, I can feed myself.>> Now, that is the ideal. It doesn't always work> out that way. Even if they are fed, they do> sometimes fuss in restaurants.

Maybe we'll give that a shot for the next time - assuming there *is* a next time! ;) Maybe even just a sandwich or something so he's not sitting around real hungry, watching everyone else get food or whatever. I tend to feed DD before we get our food, just to make things easier for me to actually eat and not have to shovel food in her mouth, shovel in mine, and back and forth. Normally feed her first and then give her some fries or something similar to eat on her own. Maybe DS needs something like that as well - have a small meal before we go out and then order something real small for him to eat and offer him some of my food or whatever.

>> Firstly, is there a good way to handle situations like that? Lately, it >> always seems to be something.more and more often. What should or >> shouldn't be done? I, personally, don't believe that yelling and >> shouting and hittiing him is the way to go.>> I don't believe in hitting, either, but sometimes> I have to yell. ;( One thing Pillbug does is> pull my ponytail, but he only does it when he's> angry and crying. So, I have to yell for him to> stop that for him to even hear me. That makes me> look really bad in front of other people, like> the occupational therapist...

With hitting, I've always told DS that hitting is not nice, and when he's hit me on occasion, I've spun around on him and told him that it's not nice. I do ask him if I hit him, and since I don't, why would he think it's alright to hit me? I also KNOW I need to control my own anger. If I were to hit to discipline, I *know* I would be near the end of my rope, and hitting with anger is NOT something that will ever accomplish anything, and I know hitting with anger is a way to totally lose control. I know that's definitely true for me. I'm a swatter, I am a yeller. I've definitely swatted fingers and hands on occasion, and that alone seems to be more than enough to get the point across, and it's not ever swatting while angry. I know I'd just totally lose it ;)

>> Also, a couple days ago, DS, DD and I were in the car. Can't remember >> where we were going or why, but he was at it again. He sat in the back >> seat saying, "I hate you." over and over again. I simply said, "That's >> fine. I still love you." and he started screaming and saying he hates me >> over and over. I finally just ignored it, but to be honest, I was trying >> my hardest not to burst out laughing.>> This is about all I would do. Pillbug doesn't> talk, but when he makes angry screeches from the> back of the car, I talk to him calmly. After> awhile, I turn on the radio and ignore him.

Hehe Yea, I've done that a couple times, but with the kids in the car, the music - radio or CDs stay very, very low. Even at a very, VERY low volume, the bass is still fairly strong. DH is a real audio freak, and the car's sound can be heard miles away thanks to him. I do keep the amp turned all the way down, but still... There's big, goofy sub boxes right in the back, and since we now have a station wagon, it's still physically in the car, in the same area we all sit in. I know for a fact that stuff like big bass should NOT be up against a child, child's seat or even an adult because of the low vibration, and the box is a good 5-6" away from the back seat, but it's still there. I would not be able to turn the volume up loud enough to be able to actually ignore the crying or screaming, but I've definitely learned to just tune everything out all at once at times.

>> Is there anything that you've found has worked? Should we walk to the >> park more often and let him burn off energy? Should I take away events >> like going to the park with bad behavior?>> We *always* go out. It's for my sanity as well> as for the kids to burn off energy. Pillbug> would never understand the cause and effect of> taking away the park (well, he doesn't understand> much cause and effect anyway), so that would not> work for me.

I find we're out and about often during the day... Either we walk to the store or the park, or I call my best friend up and hit the mall... Mom and baby/child day out. I find doing SOMETHING during the day helps all of us, tires the kids all out and helps me keep the house a bit less messy with toys and dishes and whatever. Easier to clean up when there's not much chance given to mess things up :D

> Sorry, no real ideas. Just know that I'm also> there.>> -- Anita --

Anything really helps, even if it's knowing that it's not just mine!

"toto" wrote in message news:4m74521hf2o9vnu2qriu7rsoi44pd8t2pg@4ax.com...> On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 13:34:40 GMT, "xkatx" wrote:>>>I know I'm not the perfect parent (as I know no one is THE perfect parent)>> Hey, we all have our days. If you were perfect, you would not be> human.>>>but there's some problems we're having with our 5 year old son that I'm>>finding kind of hard to deal with...>> k>>>Lately, I feel he's been acting up. I'm wondering what, exactly, I, or >>we,>>are doing wrong or could change. Any advice or tips are definitely>>appreciated...>>>>Yesterday, we went out for supper to a restaurant. First time we've gone>>out for supper in quite some time - I'd guess a good month and a half at>>least. DS hadn't behaved very well. When we walked in, the first thing >>was>>he was NOT happy that the train that sometimes runs along a track >>suspended>>from the ceiling and going through the whole restaurant was not running. >>He>>would not sit down, he was doing things to scare DD (almost 9 months) and>>not listening.>> At this point, I would have forgone the dinner and left. I might> have arranged to leave him home with a babysitter and gone> out to dinner the following evening without him.

Only once have I walked out of a restaurant, after getting our drinks and not ordering yet, not even waiting for the bill... I tallied up the amount of what drinks we had or whatever, and left some money - more than enough to cover the drinks and time we had wasted - and walked out. I kind of don't want to walk out of a restaurant once we've ordered, as pretty much as soon as they take your order and plug it in to the computer, the cooks at the back are already preparing it for you... I will pay for half finished Cokes and juice, but I don't care to pay for a meal that is made that we have walked out on. That, to me, is senseless and a waste of money that we don't really have to waste, to just go home and make something else.

>>We left to pay the bill as soon as we were done eating, and>>while paying, he threw a temper tantrum over a balloon. There were a few>>balloons tied to a pillar in the restaurant, and he had wanted one. We >>left>>the restaurant with him bawling over the damn balloon, and when we walked>>out the doors,>> Ignore the tantrum entirely even though it's not easy.>>>he was right behind me and hit me. I spun around and told>>him to hit me again>> Why would you ask him to hit you again? You are telling him that> hitting is not acceptable, but reacting with asking him to repeat the> misbehavior? I can understand that you were angry though.

He was hitting because of a temper tantrum, which had me, definitely, angry, to say the least. I've always asked him why he hit me in the first place, I've often asked him if he'd like for me to hit him back since he hit me, and sometimes it's hit me back. It just kind of depends on how far he's pushed me already on what response comes out.

>> and he wouldn't, and once again, I told him hitting is not allowed>>and it's not nice.>> He already knows that I am sure. Since he hit you in the back, this> is hard to deal with. I don't think I would have tried to reason with> him at this point about hitting. He knows it's wrong already.>>>I asked him if I hit him, and he ignored me, and I told him that I do not>>hit him, and he does not need to hit me.>> I understand how frustrating this must have been for you.>>>He then refused to get in the car and stayed up on the sidewalk>>behind some low bushes, standing there looking at us like we were>>stupid, still bawling over that balloon.>> Here it might help to just acknowledge his feelings. *I can see> you are sad that you can't have the balloon* (Btw, was this> your choice because of his bad behavior or was the restaurant> not giving the balloons away? - just curious)

Not sure. This restaurant has never given balloons out any time we've been there, and we go there often enough, so it's not like he could have remembered he walked out with a balloon one day and is wondering why he can't have one this time. I honestly don't know if the balloons were there just as decorations, if they give them away for free to children or if you pay for them. Either way, I didn't really care. His behavior did NOT warrant a balloon, nor did it even deserve for me to inquire about the balloons. Had he been acting like a normal human being, and not an animal, I probably would have asked about the balloons, but no way was I about to do that.

>>DH told him to get in his seat now or we would leave without>>him, and he finally got in the car, only to sit there screaming.>> Don't threaten something you cannot follow through on.

If it were up to DH, he probably would leave without him lol. DS has never left it so long to see if he would be left behind, and obviously I wouldn't leave him standing there in the middle of a parking lot.

>>I didn't even bother to start the car. DH turned around and told him>>to cut this garbage out and to stop acting like that, or he'd give him>>something to cry about,>> I really hate this line. Does your dh really think it will stop a> child from crying to *give him something to cry for?*

I agree. It's just a stupid thing to say. I think DH's thinking behind this is if you're going to sit there crying because of a temper tantrum, at least have a reason to cry, and not because you don't get your way.

>>and told him when we got home, he's up in his room to change and>>be in bed. He stopped and we went home, with him then refusing to>>get out of the car. I told him it was going to be a very cold and lonely>>night if he was locked in the car over night to sleep, and by the time>>DH was at our gate and I got DD out of the car, he got out as well.>> I hear your frustration, but again, making threats you know you cannot> follow through with is pretty unhelpful. I am assuming you would not> have left him in the car overnight if he had refused to get out.> Better, imo, to say nothing and simply carry him out of the car.

Yes, I would have left him in the car. I have walked off towards the house. He knows where we live and he knows how to open a gate and door just fine. Yes, I would have walked into the house, but I probably would have sat at the window, peeking through the blinds. He would not stay in the car all night, and I know he would eventually wander into the house when he saw I was going to go inside.

>>The neighbour boy was outside, and asked DS if he was coming out>>to play, and DS instantly turned around and said he has school tomorrow>>and it's late. I had to run out, and not sure how getting him in bed was,>>but DH said nothing when I got home, so I assume it was alright.>>> It's ok for your son to save face with his friend.

Of course. Once again, I thought it was funny, but I kept it to myself. I didn't say a word to the neighbour boy, didn't correct DS about how he acted when we were out, nor did I tell the neighbour that DS could not come out because he misbehaved. I let it go with DS telling the kid that he couldn't come out because he had to get ready for bed because he had school in the morning.

>>Firstly, is there a good way to handle situations like that? Lately, it>>always seems to be something.more and more often. What should>>or shouldn't be done? I, personally, don't believe that yelling and>>shouting and hittiing him is the way to go. I don't believe that way>>gets very far, but I am not all against spanking, getting my panties in>>a knot over it when someone suggests or mentions it. I've just found>>IME that it seems to be pointless and not the way to get a message>>across. My parents are from the days of the strap, I'm from the days>>of spanking, and it seems DS is from the days of just not being able>>to get the message. I've been trying to keep my calm (yes, I do have>>a temper when my buttons are pushed) and talk. He's good at ignoring.>>Gets that from his dad. How do you deal with a 5 year old just being a>>downright brat?>>> The first thing to try to do (no, not easy, but essential) is to clear> your mind of the label. He's not a brat, he is in need of learning> how to behave. Instead of telling him what he can't do, try to state> what he can do. *You can run around outside after dinner* Use> when then statements *When we finish are meal, then you can play> with your blocks (or something else he really wants to do).>> Prepare him ahead of time when you are going out by asking him> to tell you what the rules are if he knows them or restating them> clearly for him before you go. *When we get to the restaurant, we> will all sit down and have our meal. You will get to pick out your> meal. We will have some toys at the table to play with (coloring> books work if he likes to draw or bring some small toys he can> play with quietly while you wait for the meal).* Try to have> something that will occupy him in situations where you know he> has trouble behaving.>> Give him warnings of transitions. *When you finish that puzzle, then> it will be time to get on your jacket* *When the timer rings (a> kitchen timer is a great investment and you can bring it with you> when you are out), then it will be time to leave.*>> I think you need to be proactive with him when he is calm to try to> teach him how to handle his emotions in a better way.>> You may want to read *How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen> So Kids Will Talk* by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish. This will> give you some ways to change how you talk to him and get away> from labelling him a brat. He may be acting out partly because he> sees this as his *role* I know you probably don't call him a brat to> his face, but your reaction to his behavior does show him that he> is labelled that way.

I have heard of this book, but have never read it. Might be something worth looking into.I also find that he's normally real good and behaves the way any other average 5 year old acts. I don't really see him as any better or any worse than pretty much any other kid around. It just seems that when he acts up, he REALLY acts up, and lately it seems to be more and more often.

> I would read some books with him that help him deal with angry> feelings. A really good one for five year olds is *It's Hard to Be> Five : Learning How to Work My Control Panel* by Jamie Lee Curtis> I also like *When Sophie Gets Angry, Very, Very Angry* by Molly Bang>> You can also try role playing with him. Use puppets or just play the> roles yourself. Try different scenes and have him come up with> different ways he could have acted that would not make anyone mad.>> When he is angry, try to acknowledge his feelings even though you> don't like his behavior. Just saying *I can see you are angry> about....* can often defuse anger. You can also try humor. *I'm the> dinosaur monster and I'm going to tickle your angries out* Sometimes> that kind of thing works to get everyone laughing instead of being> angry.>> When he is calm try teaching him how to breathe for stress relief.> I posted the techniques we show preschoolers in a thread FAO Catherine> W recently. I can repost that if you wish. After you teach it, then> you can use it when he is angry by saying breathe and doing one of the> breathing techniques yourself to help start him off.>>>Also, a couple days ago, DS, DD and I were in the car. Can't remember >>where>>we were going or why, but he was at it again. He sat in the back seat>>saying, "I hate you." over and over again. I simply said, "That's fine. >>I>>still love you." and he started screaming and saying he hates me over and>>over. I finally just ignored it, but to be honest, I was trying my >>hardest>>not to burst out laughing. He then, after about 2 minutes of "I hate you">>over and over again, he gave up when he got no reaction from me when I was>>ignoring him, so he went on to say, "I hate Amie (DD)" and I said, "Well,>>that's not nice at all. You know she doesn't hate you." and he said he >>did>>not want her to sit next to him in the car, so the next day, I moved her >>car>>seat from the middle seat to the side so they were on opposite sides of >>the>>car. Next day, he said he wanted her seat to beside his seat and said he>>does not hate her. Moving her seat, actually, was something I had been>>wanting to do for a while, actually, since it made it a lot easier to have>>space between the car seat and booster seat to be able to do up the >>seatbelt>>for DS's booster seat. I was actually waiting for the OK from the health>>center and also Alberta Transport if my one back shoulder belt would be>>alright to use for a baby's seat. They called back and said it was>>perfectly fine to use, as since the shoulder belt part won't retract, the>>lap part was still just fine and with the locking clip, it would turn into>>like a regular lap belt and would be just fine and just as safe to use. I>>would have moved her seat over anyways, but I was waiting for the OK that>>it's fine. Now about a week later, her seat is still where I had moved it>>to, and he doesn't really care any more. Again, in the situation of the >>"I>>hate you" what's the best way to handle it? I've always simply said,>>"That's alright. I still love you" but that seems to make him even more>>mad, and never before has he said he hates his sister. He has said he >>hates>>me but loves his sister, or he's said to DH or I that he hates one but >>loves>>the other. Should this behavior be ignored completely? What kind of >>words,>>if any, should I say back to him? I find I have trouble NOT laughing, I>>just kind of find it funny, and know he doesn't mean it, but still... It's>>funny to me, and I know laughing to myself, over the situation or at him >>is>>not the way to go.>>> I understand your reaction. You might try saying *I know you are> angry with me right now.* As to his saying he hates his sister, you> can acknowledge that too. *Sometimes babies are annoying.*> You may want to read some books about how babies are annoying> and let him express his frustrations about having a baby around.> Sure, he loves her, but it's still a pain when she gets into his toys> and wrecks his block towers, etc. I recommend *Nobody Asked Me> If I Wanted a Baby Sister* by Martha Alexander.

Heh... He's actually the one that asked for a baby sister. My mom's friend, who has a boy that is about a year older than DS, has a little sister... I believe she just turned 3, and the boy, I believe, will be 6 in June. Shortly after his friend had a baby sister, he asked why he can't have one. ;) I have told him that babies sometimes just cry because that's their way of talking and telling everyone they want or need something. I've told him this when he says she gives him a headache when she cries, and I've said she gives me a headache too when she cries.

> You may want to read *Siblings without Rivalry* by Adele Faber and> Elaine Mazlish for tips on keeping rivalry to a minimum as the baby> grows older.>>>We just seem to be having general problems lately. His behavior is often>>not at all acceptable. Is there anything that anyone could suggest to >>maybe>>do with him? There's only so much I find I can do... I can only sit down>>and color so long, watch TV with him for so long or play a game for so >>long.>>Is there activities that can be done that work around a normal lifestyle?>>Is there anything that you've found has worked? Should we walk to the >>park>>more often and let him burn off energy?>> This might be helpful and both he and baby would probably enjoy it.

Normally, the baby goes with us during the day for a walk to the store a few blocks away. She seems to not care so much to go to the park, since she only shows interest in watching the other kids or touching the sand for so long - not nearly as long as DS takes to burn off energy and play. Lately, I, or DH, take DS to the park in the evening when it cools down a bit and one of us is home to stay with the baby and get some one-on-one time with DS. The silly dog also seems to like to burn off energy running around like a crazy dog for some time and seems to just love the attention from kids at the park.

>>Should I take away events like going to the park with bad behavior?>> No, I would not suggest that. All that will do is make things worse,> imo.>>>A while back elsewhere, someone had suggested doing like a sticker chart>>- get a sticker for every day that there's good behavior or whatever...>>Would something like that work?>> Too general and it will backfire, imo.>> You may want to do a sticker chart for one specific behavior> though just to get him started on doing something good. I think> that you can't do it for *good behavior* in general though.>> Pick ONE thing to focus on and pick something positive that> is not too hard to monitor.>>>List of activities or doings for every day, and every time during>>the day that this is met, should he get one sticker and work up>>to lots? I don't really want to try and bribe, reverse mentality>>doesn't seem to work... Anyone have any ideas that we can try?>>Either for DH and him, DS and I, the whole family?>>> I would do a lot of catching him being good. Ignore the bad behaviors> as much as you can and focus on the good ones you want to see more> of. Don't overpraise, but notice and encourage. When he is playing> quietly by himself, for example, say *you played a long time by> yourself. Do you want me to play with you for a while now?* When> he cleans up, say *you put all the blocks away* When he helps you> with something say *that was a big help,* etc.>> The listening is a bit harder to deal with, but....>> First of all, monitor how you listen to him. You should make sure> that when he wants to tell you something, you are attentive and that> you don't allow adult conversation to *interrupt* him. If an adult> wants to talk to you when he is trying to talk to you, ask the adult> politely to wait until your conversation with ds is done.>> Second, try to eliminate all the threats. Say something once and> than act to get compliance. Do wait for a short while for compliance,> but if it does not happen, you need to act to enforce it or to give> him a consequence right away. Make sure that you have his attention> when you ask for compliance. Don't yell across the room. Go up to> him and touch him if necessary.>> You have a difficult situation to deal with. You are not alone. The> ages of 4 and 5 are difficult ages to deal with.>> Good luck!>> Dorothy

I'll definitely try some of that! At this point, I see no harm in trying anything new as I don't know what will work, but I've seem to have found quite a few things that don't seem to work!

> --> Dorothy>> There is no sound, no cry in all the world> that can be heard unless someone listens ..>> The Outer Limits

"Welches" wrote in message news:Iyr4g.1185$ca3.1071@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net...>> "xkatx" wrote in message > news:QRo4g.2000$Yy5.1017@edtnps89...>>I know I'm not the perfect parent (as I know no one is THE perfect parent) >>but there's some problems we're having with our 5 year old son that I'm >>finding kind of hard to deal with...>> Lately, I feel he's been acting up. I'm wondering what, exactly, I, or >> we, are doing wrong or could change. Any advice or tips are definitely >> appreciated...>>>> Yesterday, we went out for supper to a restaurant. First time we've gone >> out for supper in quite some time - I'd guess a good month and a half at >> least. DS hadn't behaved very well. When we walked in, the first thing >> was he was NOT happy that the train that sometimes runs along a track >> suspended from the ceiling and going through the whole restaurant was not >> running. He would not sit down, he was doing things to scare DD (almost >> 9 months) and not listening. We left to pay the bill as soon as we were >> done eating, and while paying, he threw a temper tantrum over a balloon.>> >> You may have done this, but I find that "no puddding" very effective, > particularly in a restaurant. As your dd is small enough not to mind, I > would have happily left without pudding, although it gets harder when the > second one gets old enough to mind. I'd probably have given two warnings > along the lines of "you need to sit down quietly if you want pudding > afterwards". It works very well with #1 (age 5), although #2 (age 2) tends > to ask what the pudding is before she decides whether it's worth it, so I > don't use it with her unless I know it's something she really likes.> I can understand the upset on the train. He may have been looking forward > to seeing it, and if it's not somewhere he goes to regularly, he may > wonder if he'll see it again. I would probably have asked a waiter why it > wasn't working and whether it would be working again and when. You can > then speculate with your ds why it's not working and who wil mend it etc.> Debbie

FME going to that place, they tend to turn the background music almost right off and not allow many distractions when there's a hockey game going on... Especially now! Big hockey city, our team has made it this far, and there's, apparently, a LOT of fans hitting the pubs, bars, lounges and restaurants to watch the game. I've noticed places almost shut right down when there's hockey going on. The lounge area was packed with people glued to the game, and the restaurant part was naked of people. They didn't have the trains going, nor did they have the little airplanes going either.We normally don't go for dessert after meals, as we normally just don't have the stomach room, but more often than not, kids' meals come with some type of jell-o, pudding, ice cream, cookie, whatever. I have, before, told him there would be nothing after his meal if he didn't behave, and I have told a server no dessert before. Normally, it's been behave and finish your meal then you get the treat after. I don't force him to finish everything on his plate - an acceptable amount set forth before is often good enough, and even if half the food is thrown out or taken home, if behavior is good, then the pudding or ice cream does come. I see no reason in forcing him to finish every piece of food on his plate before getting a dessert of some sort. Maybe I'm wrong about this? It seems to work just fine normally, though.

"Welches" wrote in message news:DBv4g.6671$l91.4487@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...>> "xkatx" wrote in message > news:2nv4g.5221$Cv1.3266@edtnps82...>>>> "Welches" wrote in message >> news:Iyr4g.1185$ca3.1071@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net...>>>>>> "xkatx" wrote in message >>> news:QRo4g.2000$Yy5.1017@edtnps89...>>>>I know I'm not the perfect parent (as I know no one is THE perfect >>>>parent) but there's some problems we're having with our 5 year old son >>>>that I'm finding kind of hard to deal with...>>>> Lately, I feel he's been acting up. I'm wondering what, exactly, I, or >>>> we, are doing wrong or could change. Any advice or tips are definitely >>>> appreciated...>>>>>>>> Yesterday, we went out for supper to a restaurant. First time we've >>>> gone out for supper in quite some time - I'd guess a good month and a >>>> half at least. DS hadn't behaved very well. When we walked in, the >>>> first thing was he was NOT happy that the train that sometimes runs >>>> along a track suspended from the ceiling and going through the whole >>>> restaurant was not running. He would not sit down, he was doing things >>>> to scare DD (almost 9 months) and not listening. We left to pay the >>>> bill as soon as we were done eating, and while paying, he threw a >>>> temper tantrum over a balloon.>>>>>> >>>> You may have done this, but I find that "no puddding" very effective, >>> particularly in a restaurant. As your dd is small enough not to mind, I >>> would have happily left without pudding, although it gets harder when >>> the second one gets old enough to mind. I'd probably have given two >>> warnings along the lines of "you need to sit down quietly if you want >>> pudding afterwards". It works very well with #1 (age 5), although #2 >>> (age 2) tends to ask what the pudding is before she decides whether it's >>> worth it, so I don't use it with her unless I know it's something she >>> really likes.>>> I can understand the upset on the train. He may have been looking >>> forward to seeing it, and if it's not somewhere he goes to regularly, he >>> may wonder if he'll see it again. I would probably have asked a waiter >>> why it wasn't working and whether it would be working again and when. >>> You can then speculate with your ds why it's not working and who wil >>> mend it etc.>>> Debbie>>>> FME going to that place, they tend to turn the background music almost >> right off and not allow many distractions when there's a hockey game >> going on... Especially now! Big hockey city, our team has made it this >> far, and there's, apparently, a LOT of fans hitting the pubs, bars, >> lounges and restaurants to watch the game. I've noticed places almost >> shut right down when there's hockey going on. The lounge area was packed >> with people glued to the game, and the restaurant part was naked of >> people. They didn't have the trains going, nor did they have the little >> airplanes going either.>> We normally don't go for dessert after meals, as we normally just don't >> have the stomach room, but more often than not, kids' meals come with >> some type of jell-o, pudding, ice cream, cookie, whatever. I have, >> before, told him there would be nothing after his meal if he didn't >> behave, and I have told a server no dessert before. Normally, it's been >> behave and finish your meal then you get the treat after. I don't force >> him to finish everything on his plate - an acceptable amount set forth >> before is often good enough, and even if half the food is thrown out or >> taken home, if behavior is good, then the pudding or ice cream does come. >> I see no reason in forcing him to finish every piece of food on his plate >> before getting a dessert of some sort. Maybe I'm wrong about this? It >> seems to work just fine normally, though.> No I completely agree. I wasn't meaning that he only gets pudding if he > finishes his food. I think training a child they HAVE to eat everything on > their plate can lead to diet problems later. They can associate eating > with being good etc. and, I also know that I have difficulty eating > anything in a situation that I don't feel comfortable that I can leave > something if it's too much for me. I'll actually go without eating rather > that have the pressure of having to finish everything.> I tend to go for the 3 strikes and out approach. First warning, 2nd > reminding, and third, lost the pudding (unless a very good reason is > produced!)> I wouldn't usually leave half finished meal unless the behaviour was > intrusive for other people (and it didn't sound like it was for you-just > irritating you) but the not having pudding does work for #1's behaviour in > such a place.> Have you tried taking something for him to do while you're waiting for the > meal. I know a lot of places provide colouring, but does he like doing > that for a length of time? Maybe a little lego model to make or something?> Debbie

He LOVES to draw and color. He'll sit at that for quite a length of time. He also grabbed a couple dinosaurs to play with - basically, everything he draws or plays with is dinosaurs. He actually lost the dinosaurs to play with when he was shoving them in the baby's face, scaring her, making her cry and a sad cry. He lost the dinos, spend some time moping and then turned to coloring. About 5ish minutes of coloring, I gave him the dinosaur back, and again, he was back at shoving it in her face and shouting, well, more of a loud, "ROAR!" right in her face. Once again, he lost the dinosaur, and went to destroying the crayons. I let him amuse himself with peeling the paper off the crayons, even breaking them, and I had made it clear that none of the paper/crayon pieces were to be dropped on the floor without being picked up.He often takes a toy - some truck or car, a book, dinosaur, whatever the flavor of the moment may be, but this was actually the first time he's lost the toys for not being nice with them.DH is often the one hounding that food on your plate must be all finished. I see no point in trying to fight over finishing food. You don't finish your food and waste, well, you get nothing else until breakfast, or whatever the next meal is. Simple as that. Not a big deal. If almost all the food is wasted, I often wrap it up, toss it in the fridge, and should he say he's hungry a bit later and wants some snack, I'll offer to warm up the supper that I put away, and you can either take that or leave it. If you're hungry enough and really do want something to eat, you'll finish the whole plate of food you were going to waste anyways. No reason for cookies and junk like that ;)

"enigma" wrote in message news:Xns97B45B2E1417Aenigmaempirenet@199.125.85.9...> "xkatx" wrote in> news:N2C4g.5388$Cv1.1002@edtnps82:>>> DH is often the one hounding that food on>> your plate must be all finished. I see no point in trying>> to fight over finishing food. You don't finish your food>> and waste, well, you get nothing else until breakfast, or>> whatever the next meal is. Simple as that. Not a big>> deal. If almost all the food is wasted, I often wrap it>> up, toss it in the fridge, and should he say he's hungry a>> bit later and wants some snack, I'll offer to warm up the>> supper that I put away, and you can either take that or>> leave it. If you're hungry enough and really do want>> something to eat, you'll finish the whole plate of food you>> were going to waste anyways. No reason for cookies and>> junk like that ;)>> but what if he doesn't *like* the food? what if he was given> too large portions to begin with? why should he have to finish> the food before he gets a treat in those cases?

Not liking the food is no excuse for me or DH for food to not be eaten. I don't cook food that I know someone doesn't like... I even go so far as to make seperate spaghetti sauce or fried rice if I'm putting something like mushrooms in it - I know DS doesn't like mushrooms, so I don't even bother with him. I also read out menus to DS at a restaurant, and he picks what he likes - mostly kids' menus consist of stuff like chicken fingers, mac 'n' cheese, pizza, grilled cheese sandwiches, fish, hamburgers - what most kids normally like and eat, and DS does like and eat all of those.I normally know how much he normally can and does eat, so I tend to not give him too much. I actually try to give a little less than what I think he can manage, and seconds are always given if he wants more. Should he have eaten a reasonable amount, then fine. No worries. He's taken a liking to wanting to serve himself and put his own food on his plate - in that case, he's constantly reminded to not over do it and to only take what he will eat. He's usually pretty good about that, and as long as enough food is eaten and I usually know when he's full or just being picky and pushing buttons, I'm fine with not every piece of food eaten. Snacks or dessert is alright at that point. DH's ideas on this are that if you are too full to finish your meal, you are too full to have dessert. Dessert is different for kids, I've found ;) That's one thing I do stand against DH on - if DS's eaten what I feel is enough, then he can have a snack or treat after a meal.

> lee> -- > If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the> guise of> fighting a foreign enemy. -James Madison, fourth US president> (1751-1836)

"Jeanne" wrote in message news:juydncwnBKFqK8_ZRVn-tw@comcast.com...>T Flynn wrote:>> On Fri, 28 Apr 2006, Jeanne wrote:>>>>>>>One thing I have found is that if I ignore the screaming in the car (this >>>is NOT easy), DS will actually stop the shrieking and screaming after >>>15-30 minutes. And I mean totally ignore - no comments, no replies, no >>>reaction. If I end up yelling back and threatening dire consequences, he >>>tends to up the volume. But it's hard to keep my temper in check on bad >>>days.>>>>>>>> Did you really mean minutes or seconds????>>>>> Minutes. When we drove DD to overnight camp (a 2 1/2 hour drive) last > summer, DS cried and screamed for about an hour. In case you're > wondering, I'm not really that cold-hearted (welll, maybe I am now) but > short of stopping and nursing him, there was nothing I could do. He > dislikes the carseat and letting him out just isn't an option.>> Jeanne

A max of 30 minutes of screaming or crying would throw me far over the edge. I'd probably lose it after about 5-10 minutes MAX, and I would probably pull the car over and sit there - either in the car, but most likely out of it - until that stopped. DD hates her seat as well. She more hates getting into it, and she's normally fine after I get the straps all snapped up and start the car.

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message news:64WdndQ7OaFTBc_ZnZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@comcast.com...> xkatx wrote:>> I know I'm not the perfect parent (as I know no one is THE perfect >> parent) but there's some problems we're having with our 5 year old son >> that I'm finding kind of hard to deal with...>> Lately, I feel he's been acting up. I'm wondering what, exactly, I, or >> we, are doing wrong or could change. Any advice or tips are definitely >> appreciated...>> Heaven knows I'm not perfect either, but I'll give> you my advice for what it's worth ;-)>>> Yesterday, we went out for supper to a restaurant. First time we've gone >> out for supper in quite some time - I'd guess a good month and a half at >> least. DS hadn't behaved very well. When we walked in, the first thing >> was he was NOT happy that the train that sometimes runs along a track >> suspended from the ceiling and going through the whole restaurant was not >> running. He would not sit down, he was doing things to scare DD (almost >> 9 months) and not listening. We left to pay the bill as soon as we were >> done eating,>> When my kids went through a phase of not having> appropriate restaurant behavior we spent a while taking> two cars to the restaurant. If someone was not behaving> reasonably, he got one clear warning. If that didn't> solve the problem, a parent would take the offender> straight home. Not only did the kids not want to> miss out on dinner out, but it really got their goat that> the other kid got to stay and have a special time> (and we'd really live it up with the other one).

That's not at all an option for us... I have only one car. DH doesn't have a car, doesn't even have a license, and he never has. I guess, technically, I do have 2 vehicles, but the one is sitting at my dad's work, parked, and not at all able to properly function. It's a write off, and I guess it is still MY car, but whatever... Not possible for me to drive 2 cars, nevermind one that is basically shaped like a C and all that, and DH driving a car, running condition or not, is definitely out of the question, for obvious reasons.

>> and while paying, he threw a temper tantrum over a balloon. There were a >> few balloons tied to a pillar in the restaurant, and he had wanted one. >> We left the restaurant with him bawling over the damn balloon, and when >> we walked out the doors, he was right behind me and hit me. I spun >> around and told him to hit me again and he wouldn't, and once again, I >> told him hitting is not allowed and it's not nice. I asked him if I hit >> him, and he ignored me, and I told him that I do not hit him, and he does >> not need to hit me.>> Sounds like too much discussion to me. For one thing,> he was already around the bend and not in any frame of mind> to listen to anything. He was just frustrated and trying to> get your goat by that point, and rising to the bait doesn't> help. Just get him home, no muss, no fuss. Certainly don't> try to engage in a lesson about hitting at that point.

Luckily, the restaurant we were at is close to home. ;) We eventually made it home, and that was that.

>> He then refused to get in the car and stayed up on the sidewalk behind >> some low bushes, standing there looking at us like we were stupid, still >> bawling over that balloon. DH told him to get in his seat now or we >> would leave without him, and he finally got in the car, only to sit there >> screaming.>> Honestly, why was he given any choice at that point?> At only 5yo, you can get him in the car. He was just engaging> in a power struggle at that point--and winning as long as he> was standing there by the bushes. He got to go to the car on> his own terms.

I can't really pick him up and drag him or carry him around anymore. It's enough carrying DD around, who isn't even 20lbs yet (I normally take DD to the car, as she is closer to my side due to the back shoulder strap of the belt behind me being broken, and DS is on the other side of the car and can open his own door and get himself in his own seat) Always seemed to be easier than DH or I running around to opposite sides of the car, and DH is not really one to stand around playing games... If he's big enough to walk, has a heartbeat and no piano tied to his behind, he can get into the car himself. I find the only time DH picks up and carries is when DS passes out in the car, on the sofa/floor/etc., or when he really has his buttons pushed, and in that case, he carries DS up to his room, puts him down on the floor and closes the door and walks away.

>> I didn't even bother to start the car. DH turned around and told him to >> cut this garbage out and to stop acting like that, or he'd give him >> something to cry about,>> Idle threat (or should have been).

Seems to be a lot of those around here lately...

>> and told him when we got home, he's up in his room to change and be in >> bed.>> Sending him straight to bed is one consequence,> but the time to set consequences for behavior is before> the behavior happens. Sounds like your dh was allowing> his buttons to be pushed and getting down on DS's level.>>> He stopped and we went home, with him then refusing to get out of the >> car. I told him it was going to be a very cold and lonely night if he >> was locked in the car over night to sleep,>> Another idle threat. Nothing undermines> parental authority and discipline as much as an> idle threat. Never, ever threaten something you are> not fully prepared to carry though on.

I would carry through with it. I would not think twice about getting the baby out of the car, closing the door, walking up and into the house and going about my business. He WOULD find his way into the house. I, however, would not have driven off without him, and if I left him in the car (did it once when we went to my parents' place - he refused to get out of the car, so I got out, closed the door, went into Grandma and Grandpa's house and he sat there throwing his hissy fit in the car, refusing to come out and into the house, for a good half hour.)

>> and by the time DH was at our gate and I got DD out of the car, he got >> out as well. The neighbour boy was outside, and asked DS if he was >> coming out to play, and DS instantly turned around and said he has school >> tomorrow and it's late. I had to run out, and not sure how getting him >> in bed was, but DH said nothing when I got home, so I assume it was >> alright.>>>> Firstly, is there a good way to handle situations like that? Lately, it >> always seems to be something.more and more often. What should or >> shouldn't be done? I, personally, don't believe that yelling and >> shouting and hittiing him is the way to go.>> Agreed.>>> I don't believe that way gets very far, but I am not all against >> spanking, getting my panties in a knot over it when someone suggests or >> mentions it. I've just found IME that it seems to be pointless and not >> the way to get a message across. My parents are from the days of the >> strap, I'm from the days of spanking, and it seems DS is from the days of >> just not being able to get the message. I've been trying to keep my calm >> (yes, I do have a temper when my buttons are pushed) and talk. He's good >> at ignoring. Gets that from his dad. How do you deal with a 5 year old >> just being a downright brat?>> Well, just talk isn't going to work either.> It sounds to me like neither of you are keeping your> cool and calmly working through the situation. Your> son is calling the shots and you're dancing to his> tune. You want to threaten until he complies. I> don't really think that works with any but the> most compliant kids (and even then it isn't great> strategy). You don't threaten--especially with> idle threats. You have to make a plan in advance> that allows only the behaviors that are acceptable,> and then you have to follow through calmly and> thoroughly.> When behaviors are not acceptable,> you have to interrupt them, not allow them to> continue as you holler out increasing threats.> You stop the behavior (usually by removing the> kid from the situation), pause until he's under> control, and then redirect to better behavior.> If he goes right back to the inappropriate> behavior, you do it again. No self-respecting> kid will be okay with doing nothing ad nauseam.> He'll test you big time, but once he realizes> that he's not getting a rise out of you and> all that happens is that he spends a lot of> time spinning his wheels, he'll start making> better choices. The main thing is that in order> to achieve some consistency with this, you will> *HAVE* to plan ahead, especially in the beginning.> It takes time to go through this process, and> if you never have the time, you will put up> with the inappropriate behavior in order to> meet the needs of your schedule. You also have> to be willing to walk away from something when> you're not home. If the behavior gets bad, you> have to be willing to pick up and leave the store> or restaurant or playdate or whatever. Warn> once, then act. Don't *ever* warn and then> fail to act. I'll bet just about anything that> your DS knows you won't really follow through on> most of the things you say, so he just gets> surprised and mad when you do.

There's been many times we've just up and left something like a grocery store or department store... Temper tantrum was going on, and I remember once being just about done the grocery shopping and I left a full cart at customer service, and all I said at the time was, "I'm so sorry, but I am going to have to leave this cart here to be restocked and put back on the shelves. We're not really having a very good shopping experience, and there are some items that should be put back in freezers or coolers" The moron at the desk asked if I was having trouble maybe finding something (meanwhile, temper tantrum is going on, and I assumed the guy was a total bird brain) or if there was anything he, or someone else, could help with. I said WE'RE NOT having a good time shopping, and I need to come back without cranky children - I believe this particular time was around when DS1 was about 4 and DS2 was about 3 (DS2 is now our 5 year old)I had left the store as quickly as I could, but I didn't want to just walk out leaving the cart, as I felt it would probably be wise to inform someone that I was leaving and leaving the cart, as I did have full intentions of going back to that store, which is one I do my regular grocery shopping at.

>> Also, a couple days ago, DS, DD and I were in the car. Can't remember >> where we were going or why, but he was at it again. He sat in the back >> seat saying, "I hate you." over and over again. I simply said, "That's >> fine. I still love you." and he started screaming and saying he hates me >> over and over. I finally just ignored it, but to be honest, I was trying >> my hardest not to burst out laughing. He then, after about 2 minutes of >> "I hate you" over and over again, he gave up when he got no reaction from >> me when I was ignoring him, so he went on to say, "I hate Amie (DD)" and >> I said, "Well, that's not nice at all. You know she doesn't hate you." >> and he said he did not want her to sit next to him in the car, so the >> next day, I moved her car seat from the middle seat to the side so they >> were on opposite sides of the car.>> ? He won that round, then? I mean it's not all> a competition, but he had bad behavior and you gave him> what he wanted?>>> Next day, he said he wanted her seat to beside his seat and said he does >> not hate her. Moving her seat, actually, was something I had been >> wanting to do for a while, actually, since it made it a lot easier to >> have space between the car seat and booster seat to be able to do up the >> seatbelt for DS's booster seat. I was actually waiting for the OK from >> the health center and also Alberta Transport if my one back shoulder belt >> would be alright to use for a baby's seat. They called back and said it >> was perfectly fine to use, as since the shoulder belt part won't retract, >> the lap part was still just fine and with the locking clip, it would turn >> into like a regular lap belt and would be just fine and just as safe to >> use. I would have moved her seat over anyways, but I was waiting for the >> OK that it's fine. Now about a week later, her seat is still where I had >> moved it to, and he doesn't really care any more.>> I wouldn't have timed the move so that it appeared> to be in reaction to his tantrum. At 5yo, you only would> have had to wait a little while to sever the connection.

I had no idea that I was going to get that call I had been waiting for. I had inquired about that seatbelt about 2 weeks ago, was told to come in for the rally of car seat safety inspections put on by Capital Health and the fire halls, but I was unable to go for that, which was one week after I had originally asked the question about this problem seatbelt. She just so happened to call me back a couple days after the inspection when she didn't see I made it down. (She=family friend of my parents who is also a worker at the community health centre and does the child car seat safety inspections and the recall check and all that)It was just a matter of waiting for this call - if given the OK about that seatbelt and putting DD's seat on that side with that belt, I would have done it as soon as I had the call, if given the negative for that belt, I would have left her seat where it was. I was hoping it would come down to being good to go, as I don't believe DD's seat was installed properly, as I had to yank it forward and sideways to get DS's belt done up - and if seats can go sideways, they're not put in properly. I was constantly trying to keep her seat in properly by always tightening the belt up, which poses a problem when I've always been told that the proper way to secure the seatbelt on a car seat is to put your own weight on the child seat and strap it down with the seatbelt like that... It's just a bit hard to 'properly' put a seat in with a baby already in the seat, and finding a way to put DS's belt together, putting DD somewhere while her seat is unbuckled for DS's seat, fastening DDs seat back up with her not in the seat and then putting her in it again - and doing this every time I had to either do up OR undo his belt was just not going to happen.

>> Again, in the situation of the "I hate you" what's the best way to handle >> it? I've always simply said, "That's alright. I still love you" but >> that seems to make him even more mad, and never before has he said he >> hates his sister.>> He's just escalating to see where the boundaries> are. So far he's learned that it's okay to talk that way> and that he's powerful enough to get you to move his sister's> carseat. You don't want to teach him that he can't express> his emotions, but you can insist that he find more appropriate> ways to do it. In other words, don't punish him for expressing> frustration at you or his sister, but do teach him that the> language he was using wasn't acceptable and teach him some> alternative ways to express his frustration.

That's what I'm going to try next time it is appropriate. Offer him some alternative words to what he currently has and see if we can find better words to describe how he's feeling and why. Rather than I hate or I love all the time, maybe I like, I don't like, I'm frustrated, I'm upset, angry, hurt, happy, whatever might fit in as a more appropriate word for what he's saying or feeling.

>> He has said he hates me but loves his sister, or he's said to DH or I >> that he hates one but loves the other. Should this behavior be ignored >> completely? What kind of words, if any, should I say back to him? I >> find I have trouble NOT laughing, I just kind of find it funny, and know >> he doesn't mean it, but still... It's funny to me, and I know laughing to >> myself, over the situation or at him is not the way to go.>> Laughing at him will likely be pretty destructive.> At some level, he knows he doesn't hate either of you and> that he's just pushing boundaries. Respond to what you know> he means, not to what he's saying. Stop the behavior> (stop the car, if necessary, and sit down for a chat or> go back home), then explain that it's okay for him to> be frustrated, but it's not okay for him to use that> kind of language. Talk to him about what other ways> he could express himself.

Laughing would NOT help. I don't want to sit around laughing at him for the way he feels, so I often find that I have to look the other way when he's doing something like this, as I often find, even during frustration, that some things just seem to be funny. Probably just the way I am... I tend to find the silliest of things to be funny, even when they clearly should not be.

>> We just seem to be having general problems lately. His behavior is often >> not at all acceptable. Is there anything that anyone could suggest to >> maybe do with him? There's only so much I find I can do... I can only >> sit down and color so long, watch TV with him for so long or play a game >> for so long. Is there activities that can be done that work around a >> normal lifestyle? Is there anything that you've found has worked? Should >> we walk to the park more often and let him burn off energy?>> Sure. If he has a lot of energy, he needs safe> and appropriate ways to burn it off.

Well, we spent a good hour and a half or so this evening at the park. When we got home, he went straight upstairs, had a bath and was in bed with no problems. I was actually surprised when I had called him just once to say we're leaving, and he said bye to the couple of kids he was playing with and came right along. I did tell him I was very happy that I didn't have to call and call him or fight to leave.

>> Should I take away events like going to the park with bad behavior?>> Well, you have to find a balance. At some point,> you're just shooting yourself in the foot because if he> doesn't have any opportunities to run off his energy,> everything is just going to get harder for you. When> I got into holes like this, I'd try to clear some time> in my schedule to really focus on the behaviors. During> that time, I'd make time for a *lot* of little fun> things to do--several opportunities a day. I'd talk> them up in advance, but explain that the consequences> of poor behavior choices would be loss of those> opportunities. So, there'd be lots of chances to> lose treats, but so many were planned that we would> still get enough activities in. If I knew that they> needed to get out and play, I'd try to avoid putting> all opportunities to get out at risk.

He actually spends most of the afternoon outside in the yard. Today, I was outside with DD when he came home from school. DD and I walked through the parking lot to catch him off the school bus, she sat in her stroller watching me clean up the yard some - picking up puppy poo, raking the dead gass, leaves and garbage, I went inside with DD to make a quick (late) lunch, and we all had some soup and then he watched TV for about 10-15 minutes while I put DD down for her nap... The both of us then went back outside and I put him to work... First we picked up all his toys, and he actually picked them up more than I did, as I had told him whatever toys were broken go right in the provided garbage bag, and whatever toys he does not want raked into a garbage pile and thrown away were to be put in the sand box where they belong. He knows that I WILL throw the toys scattered all over the yard into the garbage, and he had no problem picking then up. I then challenged him to help me with the rocks that are all scattered abouts in the flower bed area... I told him I *knew* I could pick up more rocks then he could, and this was after I had asked him if he wanted to help me with the rocks... We even had a race to see who could get more rocks picked up out of the dirt, and we used his Tonka dump trucks to put the rocks in, then I sat in the middle of the yard with the hose, a bucket and he would drive the dump trucks of rocks over to me to clean them.

>> A while back elsewhere, someone had suggested doing like a sticker >> chart - get a sticker for every day that there's good behavior or >> whatever... Would something like that work?>> Eh, I've never had very good luck with that> sort of thing. Too much delay for a 5yo.

Nevermind the 5 year old... I had always thought it would be more work for me than it would be worth... I've heard others say it's worked for them, and I once picked up a big poster board to try and make some sort of chart, yet I wasted my time, effort and money on it as I eventually tossed the poster board that was all marked up and messed up... I never really had much of a clue on how to approach that, but again, I'm at the point where I'm pretty much willing to try anything that someone else has found worked or works for them!

> Best wishes,> Ericka

wrote in message news:1146350355.978195.199070@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...>> dragonlady wrote:>> In article ,>> Ericka Kammerer wrote:>>>> >>> > Well, yeah, that happens to me a lot too, especially>> > with the toddler. When she puts her hands on her hips and>> > stamps her feet it's just so over the top it's really funny.>> > But, like you say, you just can't afford to laugh at it.>>>> Once in a while, you just can't help it!>>>> My son was older than toddler -- probably about 6 -- and we were at the>> lake. He'd swum out into deep water with my Mom and I, but was not>> behaving properly, so we told him he had to swim back to water he could>> stand in. He got mad and tried to stomp his foot -- which put him>> underwater. He came up spluttering, and Mom and I cracked up.>>>> (And he still had to go back to the shallow water. And, yes, he was>> pretty mad at us -- but now he can talk about that incident and laugh,>> too.)>>>> There've been times when I've bit my tongue (literally) to keep from>> laughing -- but there've been times when it's just too far gone to NOT>> laugh!>> For me, it was when YS was about 6 (what *is* it with 6 year olds,> anyway? ). He'd been asking for something -- I don't even remember> what -- but the request turned into whinging. My kids knew early on> that when they started to whinge, the answer would *always* be 'no'.>> I turned, frustrated, and said, "What part of 'NO' don't you> understand?">> He looked at me, complete seriousness on his face and replied, "The> 'N'."

Oh! This afternoon, we went for lunch at my aunt and uncle's house... I was helping DS with holding his cards for Old Maid... He was picking his nose AND he wiped it on his shirt, and I told him to grab a kleenex and to stop picking his nose and wiping it on his clothes like a pig. He then, not skipping a beat, replied with, "Do pigs really pick their nose??" And everyone started laughing ;)

> I couldn't help it. Between his eyes being so big and serious and the> completely unexpected response, I just lost it, laughing hysterically.>> Fortunately, he started laughing too (which ended up ending the> whinging)...and now, 10 years later, it's still part of our family> schtick.>> Leah>> -->> Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care>