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Preemie Advice and Info About Birth Asphyxia?

From: "amy"
Date: 28 Apr 2006 20:56:56 -0700

Hi,

Last week I gave birth by emergency C-section to a 31 week old boy. Ourlittle dude had a traumatic start--he hadn't moved for 2 or 3 days andhad a nonreactive heartbeat. I was luckily at the hospital when hisheartbeat stopped. He was born with less than 7 PH, pulminaryhypertension, 0 apgar, the whole works. However, he rebounded perfectlyand is exactly where any "healthy" preemie would be. Neurologist giveshim an 80% chance of being perfectly normal. Not bad odds I guess.

We are most concerned about the lack of oxygen and what that mightmean. I'm just so curious to know if a fetus can stop moving for daysand have had a nonreactive heartbeat, yet still be getting enoughoxygen to the brain and organs. If anyone out there knows theanswer--do tell!

Another question for moms of preemies: How much time did you spend inNICU and what on earth did you do there? I'm hesitant to bother himwith touching while he sleeps so mostly just hang around staring at himthrough the isolette (except when I'm allowed to hold him for a while).Did you touch/stroke her while she was sleeping?

Thanks! Amy

From: chrissypete2@aol.com
Date: 28 Apr 2006 23:12:45 -0700

Hi Amy. Wow. What a welcome for the new baby. Congratulations.

I don't know the answer to the hypoxia/nonreactive question, but youare probably going to have to trust what the specialists are tellingyou at the hospital. I have heard of babies who weren't breathing for ashort time after a normal delivery being fine.

I never had a preemie, but I do know many folks who have. They have allheld and stroked their child as much as possible, and using theskin-to-skin contact method where baby sleeps on mom's chest with sayher button-up shirt undone enough so that her skin is fully againstbaby's. They also sang and talked. Unless it seemed to be bothering thebaby of course, meaning they obviously would rather be sleeping. lol.I've heard that hearing your voice and feeling your presence is thebest thing for a preemie, especially since all the sounds they hear noware nothing like what they heard inside your womb, but your voice is asure thing.

From: "Me Myself and I"
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 18:54:58 +1200

Hi Amy I'm so pleased that you were in the right place when these troubles happened. Your little boy really is lucky to be here!!!! So huge hugs to you. FWIW the hospital I delivered my 2nd premmie at won't resuscitate with an apgar of less than 3 at 5 minutes, but by the sounds of it your son picked up right off the bat he must be a real fighter.

As for spending time in the NICU I was just quite happy to sit and watch her, or I wrote a lot in a journal that I kept by her incubator. I'm so glad that I did because it's great to look back at all that happened and how my daughter got on. I really recommend keeping a journal because it is also very therapeutic. I also expressed milk while I was there.

Lastly about contact with your premmie you will find that the advice you get is different from hospital to hospital. With my first prem who was born in the UK I was encouraged to touch and stroke her often. With my second I was told that babies recovered and grew far quicker if they were left alone. That babies that were constantly disturbed by touching and stroking etc did not do as well as babies who were left alone to get better. I was also told that studies they had done in their own NICU showed this to be true. This didn't mean we couldn't touch but to not stroke or pat etc, just to lay you hand on them, and not move it around. I spent a lot of time with my hand just on her hand :)

Also do you do any of your sons *cares* yet? That is something that most hospitals encourage where you change their bum, wash their eyes etc at set times during the day. This is a great thing to do and it really helps you to feel you are aiding in your childs recovery. Ask you NICU nurse net time you are in about it.

Well I think that's enough from me. Take care, get PLENTY of rest (lack of sleep really knocks the milk supply) and enjoy that miracle boy you have.

Best wishes.

-- Pip

My girls :DD1 Jasmine - 5 weeks early - 21 March 02 -"I'm a big girl cause I go to school kindy"

DD2 Abby - 8 weeks early - 3 Feb 05 -Took her first steps on her 1st Birthday.

"Yes you can drive me insane just by talking to me!"

--"amy" wrote in message news:1146283016.763051.225130@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...> Hi,>> Last week I gave birth by emergency C-section to a 31 week old boy. Our> little dude had a traumatic start--he hadn't moved for 2 or 3 days and> had a nonreactive heartbeat. I was luckily at the hospital when his> heartbeat stopped. He was born with less than 7 PH, pulminary> hypertension, 0 apgar, the whole works. However, he rebounded perfectly> and is exactly where any "healthy" preemie would be. Neurologist gives> him an 80% chance of being perfectly normal. Not bad odds I guess.>> We are most concerned about the lack of oxygen and what that might> mean. I'm just so curious to know if a fetus can stop moving for days> and have had a nonreactive heartbeat, yet still be getting enough> oxygen to the brain and organs. If anyone out there knows the> answer--do tell!>> Another question for moms of preemies: How much time did you spend in> NICU and what on earth did you do there? I'm hesitant to bother him> with touching while he sleeps so mostly just hang around staring at him> through the isolette (except when I'm allowed to hold him for a while).> Did you touch/stroke her while she was sleeping?>> Thanks! Amy>

From: kevles@mit.edu (Beth Kevles)
Date: 29 Apr 2006 12:20:46 GMT

HI --

I have no personal experience with your situation. However, I've readthat preemies do best when they have an environment that's as much likethe womb as possible. In some hospitals they do "kangaroo" care, whichmeans that the mom carries the baby as much as possible, kangaroo-like.You don't DO stuff, like stroke the baby, but the baby gets your warmth,the sensation of your heartbeat and body movements, just as he would inthe womb.

You might check with the NICU about that, see if it's suitable in yoursituation.

I'm sending hopeful, healthful vibes your way! I hope your baby doeswell.--Beth Kevles bethkevles@aol.com http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the AOL one if you wouldlike me to reply.

From: an588@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Catherine Woodgold)
Date: 29 Apr 2006 14:25:42 GMT

"amy" (amyamyjack@hotmail.com) writes:

Vitamin E helps the body's tissue stay healthy when thereis either too much or too little oxygen present, extending thelimits of the conditions the tissue can stay healthy under.Vitamin E supplementation can help stroke patients who have some, but less than normal amounts, of blood circulation to some parts of thebrain, and can result in noticeably improved brain function.I don't know if this information is any use to you at thispoint in time but it may shed some light on the uncertaintiesand variables involved.

> Another question for moms of preemies: How much time did you spend in> NICU and what on earth did you do there? I'm hesitant to bother him> with touching while he sleeps so mostly just hang around staring at him> through the isolette (except when I'm allowed to hold him for a while).> Did you touch/stroke her while she was sleeping?

I hope you will overcome your hesitation in touching him.Babies need touch! Why are you only "allowed" to holdhim sometimes -- he's your baby, isn't he? When he hasjust been put down, if you begin stroking him then, I don'tthink it would disturb his sleep. Babies often sleep betterif there is some motion, which indicates to them that a parentis present and it's safe to continue sleeping. If youthink stroking him will disturb his sleep, you could placea warm hand on him and stay still. I think he'll appreciatethe company. Or, place a hand on him and gently rockhim back and forth, if that's feasible in the situation.

Why not experiment? Waking him once won't do thatmuch harm. Maybe when you touch him he'll relax, feelsecure, and actually be able to fall into a deeper sleep!You can also try to figure out whether he's in a deepsleep or a light sleep. You can begin touching himvery very gently and gradually increase it over severalminutes to try to avoid disturbing his sleep.In a light sleep, you may be able to see his eyesmove under the closed eyelids, hear irregular breathing,and see occasional motion or muscle twitches.He should have periods of light sleep (REM or dreamsleep) and periods of deep sleep. I only mention this becauseit might help you learn how to touch himwithout disturbing him.

Babies really need to be touched, just to maintainnormal health. And even if it has no effect on him,it's important for you, as a way of developing deeper feelingsof love (which will help carry you through years laterwhen the kid does exasperating things) and developingyour confidence as a parent. So do touch him more.

From: "toypup"
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 15:37:56 GMT

"Catherine Woodgold" wrote in message news:e2vt16$gvc$1@theodyn.ncf.ca...> I hope you will overcome your hesitation in touching him.> Babies need touch! Why are you only "allowed" to hold> him sometimes -- he's your baby, isn't he? When he has> just been put down, if you begin stroking him then, I don't> think it would disturb his sleep. Babies often sleep better> if there is some motion, which indicates to them that a parent> is present and it's safe to continue sleeping. If you> think stroking him will disturb his sleep, you could place> a warm hand on him and stay still. I think he'll appreciate> the company. Or, place a hand on him and gently rock> him back and forth, if that's feasible in the situation.

It would depend on the preemie. DS would stop breathing if he was overstimulating. We couldn't touch him much the first few days. DD thrived with skin contact and I just held her to my chest and rock her as long as I could, but she was hardier than DS.

From: "cjorp@yahoo.com"
Date: 29 Apr 2006 10:24:34 -0700

amy wrote:

> Last week I gave birth by emergency C-section to a 31 week old boy. Our> little dude had a traumatic start--he hadn't moved for 2 or 3 days and> had a nonreactive heartbeat. I was luckily at the hospital when his> heartbeat stopped. He was born with less than 7 PH, pulminary> hypertension, 0 apgar, the whole works. However, he rebounded perfectly> and is exactly where any "healthy" preemie would be. Neurologist gives> him an 80% chance of being perfectly normal. Not bad odds I guess.

Wow, what a landing. Congratulations on your little boy.

> We are most concerned about the lack of oxygen and what that might> mean. I'm just so curious to know if a fetus can stop moving for days> and have had a nonreactive heartbeat, yet still be getting enough> oxygen to the brain and organs. If anyone out there knows the> answer--do tell!

All I know there is that they stop moving in order to conserve oxygenfor the brain, instead of sending blood to the muscles. Theneurologist's comments sound hopeful.

I was in NICU for about half an hour out of every three, to establishbreastfeeding (but my DS was a 34 weeker, right when the suck reflexkicks in.) Otherwise they didn't want me in there -- he was under bililights, and they're bad for your eyes.

-- C, mama to three year old nursling

From: "amy"
Date: 29 Apr 2006 20:40:22 -0700

Thanks everyone! I especially appreciate the particulars about NICUtime. I've been holding him for 2-3 hours a day when he's not underbili lights and hubby does an hour too. Hopefully we can increase that,but I've been trying to spend some time with our toddler too. Can'tfigure out who needs me more! I just wish he could be on my belly for24 hrs a day...

From: "amy"
Date: 29 Apr 2006 20:40:18 -0700

From: "amy"
Date: 29 Apr 2006 20:40:24 -0700

From: "amy"
Date: 29 Apr 2006 20:40:31 -0700

From: "amy"
Date: 29 Apr 2006 20:42:12 -0700

Thanks everyone! I especially appreciate the particulars about NICUtime. I've been holding him 2-3 hrs a day and hubby does an hour too. Ihope we can incease that, but I've been trying to spend some time withour toddler too. Can't figure out who needs me more! Welcome to theworld of having two kids I guess...

From: "Akuvikate"
Date: 29 Apr 2006 21:25:33 -0700

amy wrote:>> We are most concerned about the lack of oxygen and what that might> mean. I'm just so curious to know if a fetus can stop moving for days> and have had a nonreactive heartbeat, yet still be getting enough> oxygen to the brain and organs. If anyone out there knows the> answer--do tell!

Wow -- congratulations, and best of luck with the NICU stay and lifebeyond. That's fantastic that with the numbers you're giving theneurologist says he has an 80% chance of full recovery. The shortanswer to your question about oxygen is "No, but..." The reason hestopped moving and had all the subsequent problems was either that hewasn't getting enough oxygen or had some other major physiologicalstress that was making him shut down. That said, babies are built towithstand stresses that would kill us big people. They often doexperience oxygen deprivation that would literally kill you or me andbounce back amazingly fast -- so it's hard to know which babies willhave lasting effects and which won't. You just have to take it day byday and it sounds like he's very much heading in the right direction.>> Another question for moms of preemies: How much time did you spend in> NICU and what on earth did you do there? I'm hesitant to bother him> with touching while he sleeps so mostly just hang around staring at him> through the isolette (except when I'm allowed to hold him for a while).> Did you touch/stroke her while she was sleeping?

I'm not a preemie mom, but I've spent a few months working in the NICU. On the whole I'd say the really involved moms would come in daily forup to 2 or 3 hours and depending on how fragile the baby was they'deither sit at the bedside or hold, feed, change diapers, etc. (andpump). You're likely going to have him in there for at least a month,so whatever routine you establish you'll have to keep up for a longtime -- make it something manageable. For someone who anticipatesbeing out in a week, she can basically live in the NICU. For the momof a 24-weeker, she won't be able to make it every day of her baby's3-4 month stay. You're somewhere in between -- don't feel like youhave to be there every waking moment, especially if you have anotherlittle one at home.

As for touch, etc, it all depends on how fragile your little guy is andwhat he likes. Some babies clearly can't handle touch at first, somejust do beautifully for mom in a way they don't do when she's notaround. Look to the NICU staff for guidance and make your preferencesclear.

Kate, ignorant foot soldier of the medical cartel (pediatric resident)and the Bug, almost 3 years